Redefining the art of retrofitting with Ved Dhote

Ramu Ramanathan (RR): You have been part of a family business and family legacy. Tough?
Ved Dhote (VD): I’ve been in the family business for almost 20 years now.  When a printer’s family persistently doing something for many years, trying something new is always difficult.

RR: How did you manage?
VD: I decided to do something on my own and a bit differently, at that. I knew that if things didn’t work out I always had my family to fall back on but I had to give it a shot to showcase my creativity. My parent company Bharat Lithographing and my relatives were quite supportive with me in this decision.

RR: You are an engineer, who didn’t want to enter this line of business.
VD: True. I am a mechanical engineer who passed out in 1999 from the Datta Meghe College in Nagpur. I didn’t want to get into the printing business as I found it boring to see the same job coming in and going out, four days a week.

RR: You had done your apprenticeship at Bajaj Auto in Pune, and then got an interview at DC Designs in Mumbai.
VD: I’d almost agreed to work with DC Designs. But I wanted to get into the design department, and he placed me in the production division. Had it happened otherwise, I would have ended up in a different industry altogether.

RR: When did the penny drop?
VD: I can say that the visit to Drupa in 2000 was an eye-opener for me.

RR: How so?
VD: That’s when I realised that a car’s engine can be manufactured for  Rs 80,000, and what you pay extra is for the luxury such as the seats, audio system etc. In the context of the engine, even if the timing factor is 10-20 degrees below top dead centre (TDC), the car will still function. So, if there are four cylinders in the car and if one locks out, you still have three cylinders to take you home.

RR: As opposed to a printing press ...
VD: ... Imagine a printing press where a brittle 30-40 gsm paper is being printed spot-on, with four different colours along with ink-water balance. So, there is a minimum of 6,000-8,000 sheets going in and coming out at the same speed in an hour. I discovered that this is engineering in the true sense, because if the paper is skewed even by one degree on either side; the entire job goes for a toss.

RR: Interesting point. Can you elaborate on this?
VD: This is called precision in a printing press. The paper goes through five units to seven units, during which, it also gets turned. I was at at Drupa for ten days, but there was still so much to explore. The amount of engineering, metallurgy, and everything related to the press amazed me as an engineer. And then I delved deeper. I became more passionate about doing something in the field of printing. I don’t do it for money; I do it purely out of passion.

RR: Your purpose of visiting Drupa, business or pleasure?
VD: For me Drupa or any other exhibition, it’s a very serious thing. I’m not there to have fun. 

RR: Where did you develop your printing skillset? 
VD: I had moved to New Delhi for about two years in 2004-2005, where I worked with Abhay Datta, director, UV Graphic Technologies. He is innovative and one of the leaders in the UV market. He taught me many things about flexo, UV, offset, and other different types of printing. That’s when I developed interest in UV printing.

(l-r) AIFMP’s president Ravi Joshi felicitates Ved Dhote 

RR: In what capacity were you working with him?
VD: We had opened a UV varnishing centre in New Delhi. It was a showroom for his company, and I was assigned to run it. We had customers and clients coming from the USA, UK, and Germany. In fact, I was the main operator for their press at Drupa 2004. It was a huge learning curve for me, as I was running the machine and talking to customers and clients. Explaining our technology to experts from Schmid Rhyner and Steinemann, who had got the Hibis, a rotary screen spot UV printing machine that gave the highest gloss 
levels then.

RR: What was UV Graphic doing?
VD: We had created a machine that would give higher gloss levels than a screen UV by putting approximately 16 gsm. We had the glossometers coming. It was interesting to see the Steinemann team coming and understanding our technology.

RR: So, would it be fair to say that what you have achieved is a combination of a mechanical engineering plus your two-year stint with Datta?
VD: Sometimes you need to take a bold step. I always believe if you’re a businessman, you should be willing to take risks. And, if you are willing to enjoy the benefits of the risk, you should also have the guts to accept the failures that come along. And doing it sportingly is what makes the difference.

RR: How was the Kolkata market in those days?
VD: We were dealing with packaging customers and because of that, we were indirectly competing with companies like Pragati and Parksons. But, I was a very small fish in the big ocean. People had already provided new features like drip-offs.

RR: How did you cater to it?
VD: The Navaratna oil job was a major hit. It shook the entire market, because it was probably the first mass volume production job in low budget, and everybody was fighting to bag it. Navaratna belongs to the Kolkata-based company Emami, which was seeking a vendor in the city. People would bring a sample from ‘The Big Guns’ and ask me whether I could achieve it. It gave me confidence becuase if they can compare me to them, and if I can produce the same quality, then perhaps, I am as competent as them.

RR: Were you?
VD: It was then when I took up the challenge and I cracked it. We got our coating units; we had one four-colour, added to a two-colour for doing drip-offs and coatings. We used to print on the four-colour press, first the white then the four-colour pass, followed by the drip-off on the third pass on the two-colour press.
Those machines that make the man

RR: Have you procured any machines from Datta?
VD: I have about 26 UV systems and all have been procured from Abhay Datta. That’s the kind of trust that I’ve put in him. That’s the kind of trust I have in him and the quality of equipment he provides.

RR: When did you purchase your first machine and how?
VD: In 2008, just before Drupa, I bought a two-colour press (20x28 size) with a UV conveyor belt. I knew that MetPET was coming. I took a personal loan at approximately 36% from various banks to support this vision. Although it was very steep at a cost of 36% per annum, I had the confidence that things would work out. In the following year, my godfather elder cousin, Tushar Dhote, introduced me to David Pereira, from whom I procured my first four-colour machine. I still run that machine, and I haven’t looked back. However, we were still passing one sheet, three times from the press, firstly for the white, then for the four colour, and then for the UV or the drip-off effect.

RR: Absolute madness.
VD: There was method in the madness.

RR: Your first six-colour press?
VD: In 2012, we booked a pre-owned Komori six-colour plus coater. Pragati had used it for 12 years and the press was in good condition. I had checked all the cylinders, and I was assured of its quality as it was Pragati’s press and was still producing quality jobs.

RR: Were there any added features on the  Komori press?
VD: The press had an added advantage of ink temperature control on the rollers for the UV. so that the rollers are always at a good temperature, and there are no overheating problems. UV inks are generally tackier compared to other inks. 

The most important part was that it consisted of a six -colour coater, where they had turned the coating unit, which was a two-roller system, into an anilox roller coating system. They had spent about  Rs 13 lakh to convert it, in association with the Tresu Group, which is one of the world’s best coating system providers.

RR: What was Pragati deploying it for?
VD: They were using it for online aqueous coating for matte and gloss. They were using a fine layer for aqueous, you don’t require much of a deposit. So the consistency of the coating is always constant with an anilox roller.

Ved Dhote spoke at the MMS programme in Mumbai along with seven print leaders

RR: How often do you run the Komori press as you seem to have an arsenal of printing machines to go to?
VD: The Komori press has been producing UV jobs for the past eight months, non-stop. And, there is not even one day that we have used it for doing conventional jobs. 

RR: What sort of modification did you do to the machine?
VD: I put another coating unit on the other side as well. It’s probably one of the rare presses, in India, which has two kinds of coating unit modules. One is the anilox and the other is the conventional roller coater. So, I can use either of them according to my requirement.

RR: What are the advantages?
VD: This let’s me control the amount of coating that I have to transfer to the job. There are a few basic parameters that we look into such as the kind of print finishes we want – gloss/matt/drip off UV or gloss/matt/ neutral/iridium aqueous.

RR: Why didn’t you opt for a new machine?
VD: A good idea for me, even today, is that instead of investing into one particular equipment, I would rather utilise that same money in investing into a fleet or a whole range.

RR: Why so?
VD: Because even if you buy a 20-crore worth machine to print UV, you will be able to print a maximum of 12,000 sheets per hour. On a second-hand press, you will be able to print close to 10,000 sheets  but the cost difference of a new press versus a second-hand machine is considerable. With that kind of money, I can buy 15 presses for each kind of application, I could have a machine 
to cater  to different sizes. If one breaks down I would have the other as a back-up, as ultimately these equipment are going to have breakdowns. It is necessary to understand the ROI of every equipment.

RR: I suppose when you say it like that it makes sense.
VD: The other important part is that the machines need to be fed. If the machine has a capacity of 15,000, then I have to ensure that it is fed with metallised paper at 15,000 constantly. I can’t have a machine which is working with 3,000 sheets; the balance has to be there. Also, if the sheets are coming out at a speed of 10,000 per hour, I have to ensure they are processed at 10,000 sheets per hour. So, I would rather invest in an entire profile of equipment rather than just one. Investing in a new machine, somehow, didn’t really make sense to me.

RR: In India the ‘who’ is always tricky. For example, whom you will eventually trust vis a vis your UV application?
VD: Yes. It is the toughest thing to do. It’s a catch-22 situation where you have to completely trust somebody on his judgement. In some cases, you can trust him but he might not perform or deliver. In my case, it was spot-on thanks to Abhay Datta.

RR: Do you feel that your system or approach is inspirational?
VD: I believe that people should have their own choices and make their own decisions. Many people in the printing market who have been to places such as China, Japan and Europe think that they are more aware as compared to others. But they have to come out from the superficial shell and realise that there are people who are paid to do work for them due to their experience in this field; it’s their job to print.

RR: Please explain what you mean?
VD: For instance, why is there a seven o’clock cylinder arrangement at all our presses? It wasn’t there earlier but there are people who have implemented it. Even Komori who preferred the five o’clock arrangement, have changed their system to seven o’clock. So, there has to be some practical or scientific reason for them to do it, it’s not an arbitrary decision. Likewise, if someone has purchased LED for varnishes, even if it’s expensive, it’s – maybe – because his jobs require less varnish. Or he has an offline coater for varnishes, or he has an electricity problem at his unit. People should respect individual choices and preferences and not consider them as tech fools.

RR: What was your thought process behind the procurement of a pre-owned UV press?
VD: I never wanted to go in for a pre-owned UV press, even if the machine had UV installed by the company. The reason is, if I’m buying a second-hand press, the UV technology or the system will be at least 10-year older. The UV technology at that time was nascent. So, the kind of systems we had was huge with UV transformers etc. It used a lot of power and gave very less amount of UV radiations actually needed for curing.

RR: Have things changed drastically in the last three or four years?
VD: Now, the entire system is compact like a DVD player and it emits double the amount of radiation. So, if I would have bought a UV system which was made in 2000, I would have needed at least four UV lamps in the delivery to support it. Imagine the heat and the amount of electricity it required. Today, I’m using two lamps with a harder curing strength. Also, those UV systems used to produce a lot of ozone, which is not good for both humans and the machines. In addition to it, if a machine has been exposed to UV radiation for the past 10 years, there’s a lot of heat built up in the press. Secondly, there are chances of the bearings to have worn out because of the heat, radiation, and the ozone that is produced.

RR: Are there different rules for a UV press as opposed to a conventional press ?
VD: Yes, If I bought a conventional press today, I can use it for the next 10 to 15 years, but if I buy a pre-owned UV press, it will run at it’s optimum only for the next five years. Changing all the UV systems, would cost a lot of money.

RR: Is that why you chose the retrofitting option?
VD: I decided I will put the UV system myself. And make sure that the UV lamps I buy are readily available for the next five years. I wanted to ensure I get a support system. It also meant, I’m putting a more recent UV system than the older generation.

Dhote: “Instead of investing in one equipment, I would utilise the money investing in a whole range”

The Future of print

RR: So, what according to you is going to be the future of print?
VD: When LED UV was introduced, the distance between the LED lamp and the paper was less than 10 millimetres. This was only possible with flexo as in a sheetfed, the sheet would always jump. It was patented by Panasonic once upon a time, and now it is open to all. 

RR: Is the future going to be LED?
VD: By 2025, I think all the presses across the world will be LED. I don’t think you will see even one conventional UV player in the next Drupa and even if you see one, he would probably be one of those guys doing something extraordinary.

RR: Even in India?
VD: In India, with the speed at which we are growing, we will take another five years to ensure that everybody is using LED. LED is the future – bulbs and tube lights, today, are shifting to LED because it’s eco-friendly, power friendly, and health friendly.

But unfortunately, the technology is not up to the speed of the machine, yet. The whole system, between LED and conventional UV, will only make a difference if you are running the machine for at least three to four days a week. Or at least, a minimum of three days a week. If you print once a week with UV, then I don’t think LED is going to make so much of a difference because ultimately what you save in power is what you spend on the inkand the LED system.

It’s like picking between a diesel car and petrol car. Diesel cars will give you more fuel economy (at a higher cost of investment) terms of cost, but you have to run it to make sure your car gives you the right returns.

RR: Is it easy to get into the UV segment?
VD: I don’t think people can just wake up one morning and say, ‘I am going to start doing UV.’ It’s not that simple or it’s not that everybody is doing it. I have seen a lot of commercial printers shifting to package printing just because it is growing. It doesn’t work that way. If you are a packaging printer, you need to know the grain direction and gain knowledge about packaging and its needs. A commercial printer who specialises in printing on textured paper knows his paper in and out. It doesn’t mean that just because it’s about printing on a board one can venture into it. Packaging will always need a post-print application, whether it’s UV, varnishing, lamination, or foiling.

About Vibgyor Arts

RR: The software you use?
VD: In 2010 at Ipex, I got in touch with a company called Founder. I sat with the software for three months and we created about 700 patterns that we are capable of doing in today’s time.

RR: What was the process you followed?
VD: We needed to know the thickness of the line, with all the trial and errors. Before the design goes on to the press, we took a trial run on white and metallised black papers and other substrates to see the outcome. I had an electronic microscope that I would use to study the thickness of the lines. I standardised things slowly and steadily – we got the thickness right, the gaps between the two lines right, and then we made the patterns right. To create these patterns on the software like CorelDraw or Illustrator the files would be very heavy. Now, it was easier to copy those files into the software.

RR: What are you powering the machines with?
VD: I’m using an electronic power supply. There are no transformers or ballasts used in this system. It’s like a small DVD player that controls the entire electronic power supply. So, I can go from zero power to 100. I can even go into fractions like 32, 54 or 68.  Earlier the slabs were like 50, 70, 90 and 100.

RR: So you can alter the required power howsoever you want?
VD: These electronic power supplies are very slow and gentle on the main power when they are actually igniting the lamps. The most important thing is that these electronic supplies can be used for LED HUV in the future. I just need to change the cassette and they produce the required amount of energy.

RR: Where do you place it and how does it work?
VD: It’s placed inside a control panel, which is kept outside the printing press separately because it generates a lot of heat. It’s got its own air- conditioning unit in the panel itself. This electronic power supply is called EPS, which actually controls the UV intensity, depending on the speed of the press.

RR: Really?
VD: So, for instance, if the machine is running at a speed of 4,000 sheets per hour, it will have a 30% distribution of power, and if the speed is 6,000 sheets per hour, it will change to 60%. So, you don’t necessarily have to run the press in full speed or at low speed to ensure that you’re utilising power.

RR: Who does the concept selling for you?
VD: It’s a mixed thing. When the client comes in, especially for the first time, he wants a job of the highest quality. This is a very difficult part when you’re doing something from the point of concept. As from a printer’s point of view, I will think of the finished product and then start designing.

RR: What is the Vibgyor method?
VD: In our case, the concept is prepared, the images are readied, the design is approved and then it comes to us for printing. So it is challenging for us to gauge that if our ideas can actually be implemented or not.

RR: And you have to intervene ...
VD: That’s where I step in; I make sure every design that comes in, along with the first proof, is approved by me. I give the customers two-three concept options to choose from. Before the job is in production, we ensure that it’s all set with the selection of inks and calibration. We match the settings on the machines and readings are taken on the discs.

RR: How did you strike the balance when you were making this shift?
VD: We developed the entire job. We did our own proofing where we had our designs written on the cartons, which included cosmetics, hosiery undergarments, pen boxes, and so on. So, we went from shop to shop, from customer to customer, on my motorcycle. We showed them a comparison of the conventional box and the model we created.

RR: What was the major challenge in Kolkata?
VD: The people in the eastern part of India are very conservative. They believe that if something is coming from an already established market such as Mumbai, they will go for it, but wouldn’t want to experiment it themselves.

RR: Tough?
VD: It was a little tough initially, but since I had the two-colour press, I used to collect a lot of samples approved from the market, especially the two-colour-Dunhill perfume box which had a special blue and a special red with some black or gold. Then the UV came in, we then used to conceptualise and convert it into cartons. Thus, we started producing cartons, slowly and steadily. Followed by the process of covering it up with a regular full-colour, and then the white started coming in. Further, the drip-offs with all the textures and the reflections came in.

RR: How big is your design team?
VD: Five people who spend most of the time in separation; such as separation of the drip-offs, the whites and making sure the effects are put in. We receive the raw file, usually in half-tone format, and the clients aren’t aware of where to put in the white. We have done a lot of halftones in white in textures. We had made one plate with 45 lpi to give a thick grain texture finish.

RR: Why?
VD: Normally, people make it at a 175 to 200 lpi screens for output. So, 45 dpi means 45 lines in one inch, which is really thick as compared to 200 lines. So the vignette is very wide, and we do it as we want the dots to get as big as possible to give that texture to it.

RR: Does it help with UV jobs?
VD: We use regular gloss UV to make sure it looks like a sand UV job. We change the output file, make it into a dot, give it out in a 45 or 60 lpi screen, with 30% black that enables you to get a  flexo dot or an anilox roller effect.

RR: What kind of role do inks play?
VD: The problem is that the LED technology hasn’t arrived in it’s entirety. Imagine, you are an ink manufacturer and have to cater to 2,000 people who need your conventional UV and there are five people who want LED. As a businessman, you would always want to cater to those 2,000. And if you’re going to get it imported from Japan or China, it’s going to take another month, which is not viable. Theoretically, varnishes or any post-press related to it is expensive. So, the viability hasn’t come in yet.

RR: How are you testing for inks?
VD: The nail test. This is the basic thing that we do for UV. Secondly, we standardise all inks and varnishes. So, my repeatability of the job today, after a week or even after six months, is constant. 

RR: How do you standardise?
VD: There are a lot of inks available in the market which are tacky and thick. Eventually, in due course of time, the ink and the roller start having a gap between them. That’s why you need to have ink agitators which are available in all the presses abroad. As we don’t have it we get inks whose viscosity is lowered to meet our Indian standards. There are inks made in Belgium, but temperatures that are very different than what we are operating here. In addition to it, we don’t have any agitators; neither do we have the time for people to keep on stirring it.

RR:  Have you standardised varnishes, too?
VD: We’ve standardised a few products and we use them blindfolded. We’ve got a 3M tape test that we follow and at the same time, we also have all these primer coatings, Corona treatments checking pens, which we use occasionally. The vanishes are optimised so that they can be used by the pumps that we have. The flow doesn’t really change that much, because the moment the heat in the varnish goes up, the viscosity comes down.

RR: So different techniques for different seasons?
VD: In winter, the grain settings are different to the ones in summer, as the viscosity changes the moment it’s heated up. It becomes thinner and the flow increases, resulting in more deposition.

RR: Are these tricks – the nail test and 3M  tape tests – known to your colleagues on  the production floor?
VD: Yes, at least the people who report to me know it. They have passed it on to the operators.

RR: That’s good. You spread the knowledge.
VD: Of course. Every time I learn something I share it. I have a small meeting in the office to share with them what I’ve experienced, the outcome of my meetings, the trends and technologies in Germany, or any exhibition that I have visited. I tell them each and everything; how it’s done, what the process is elsewhere etc. Exposure to this knowledge encourages them to look forward and motivate them.

RR:  Are there dedicated machines for dedicated substrates?
VD: Mostly, it’s a dedicated line. One particular machine does a particular job at a given time. For example, the six-colour coater is dedicated to UV jobs. I have another six-colour coater which is dedicated to conventional ink printing and aqueous varnish. Another machine is for using seven colours, which is dedicated to doing the bottoms of the boxes, because then I have a lot of special colours to do. I have two extra units which I can use at my disposal.

RR: How is the process of hand me down on the shopfloor area?
VD: I take reports from people in-charge of a set of people, who are again, in charge of a set of more people. So the machine operator reports to the department head, who is answerable to the production supervisor, who is in-charge of answering to me. I have an open office policy. 

But I have to follow a system as I cannot be available for petty admin things. Also, I have  to make sure the system is working. So, if I have hired someone, it’s his duty to ensure that the job is done because I have assigned a person for his convenience, for him to ensure that his work is done efficiently. The machine operator has been given helpers so that he can do his job efficiently, faster, without straining himself. Just like any other press, we have departments – pre-press, press, and the post-press. It is the press departments responsibility to make sure that the paper is cut to the perfect size, and everything is mentioned there. If you have doubts, you can pick up the phone and connect to the concerned person.

RR: How do you perceive your press?
VD: Optimum, complete and smooth.

RR: One innovation you’re proud of
VD: I have produced our own sand effect UV, which was produced at the kitchen of my house. I used ingredients and things that would make the UV as thick as possible. 

RR: Vibgyor, five years down the line?
VD: I would want to be one of the leading packaging houses in India, at least in terms of innovation and specialisation, and have my own children’s book segment.

RR: Why are you focusing on children’s books for the future?
VD: We are creating a lot of children’s books, especially the covers, and that is something that I will take on in the future as my own brand. No matter how much digitisation enters our lives, eventually, a child will need to learn to write and paint, join the dots, write his name, and so on. So, we are focusing on publishing our own books for children, upto the age of nine. My intention is to focus on basics such as motor skills. I want to do something for the society, create multi-linguistic books which enable children to learn how to read and write.

RR:  Would you have a publishing house for children’s book?
VD: It’s my dream, and I have already started working on it. The idea is to get a team and move out of my existing area to a design or advertising agency and make my own creative unit. It will focus only on these books as you can’t have two things under one roof. 
For the publishing house, I will need an illustrator and content creators. The most important is the design of the cover. They say, don’t judge a book by its cover, but a book will sell by its cover. Distribution is another major part; I would initially like to export to third-world countries such as the African sub continent, so that education is spread to a lot of people. 
My aim is to grow globally, especially in these countries, to help them learn English in a better way.